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December 24th, 2005


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richmackin
09:19 pm - Right speech and community drama
The recent post where a friend of a LJ Buddhist Community member spoke of what he called insulting and an attack on his friend makes me think of some issues that are going on in my real-life sangha, and questions of how do we deal with problems in context of right speech.

In the aforementioned post, someone talked about an exchange online- but instead of saying "This happened, here is a link, what do you think?" The poster described the incident in their own biased words and presented an expected tone of agreement, but not any request of action.

In reality, my sangha is dealing with a few issues...

One involves a couple, both involved with the Sangha, but the man was heavily involved while the woman was occasionally involved. After years together and as part of the sangha, they got married. On the honeymoon, she realized that she identified as a lesbian and left him. She has not come to sangha events since. He has been struggling with the situation (obviously) but isn't helped by the fact that he came back to have everyone ask "How was your honeymoon?" "How's married life?" etc. How does he draw the line between gossip and what is logically effecting his mindset and wellbeing?

Another is a man who has been active for a long time who had a drug problem that got worse over the summer. He functionally disappeared from contact over the last month, and on a cold night a month or so ago, after weeks sleeping on the street, he broke into one of the community houses- apparently to do nothing more than dry off and try and sleep in the closet (?!) Obviously, this puts his actions into question and it was debated whether he should be trusted to be allowed on site if he's breaking into places- at least until he can show he's trustable- but what would show that? As some people who wouldn't have known about the break-in would be affected, possibly, as they would be the people most likely to have this man in their houses, it was debated how public the incident should be discussed. Obviously, if someone you know is breaking into the homes of loved ones, you might consider alerting such people, but how do you decide who and how?

There are a few more examples, but the answers seemed in keeping with the concepts of NonViolent Communication one specific idea being that in discussing a situation, you make an attempt not to describe events, but to report them as objectively as possible, and seperate your judgements. This doesn't mean you don't discuss your feelings, in fact NVC at least is focused on feelings, but you note that your observations and feelings are different.

So, instead of saying "Watch out for JoeyJoeJoe, he's a theif!" one might say "I just wanted to let you know many of us are concerned about JoeyJoeJoe, he was found in the sangha house closet and nobody knew how he got there. We have a lot of evidence to suggest he's been doing drugs, but he hasn't been very forthright with the situation."- by and large I've noticed this sort of wording also allows ALL parties to care about all parties. I know in the above situation, I both worry about "JoeyJoeJoe" because I care for him as a friend BUT don't want to open myself up to increased risk of having stuff stolen from him.

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure I have a "and the moral of the story is..." I know that in some situations, this sort of thing helps me a lot, but in others, I keep feeling there is supposed to be some magic solution I'm not getting. I just thought this might be an interesting topic of discussion for objective comment, not just as reaction to a specific situation.

With palms pressed together,

Rich

(14 comments | Leave a comment)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:afoundobject
Date:December 25th, 2005 05:37 am (UTC)
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i think NonViolent communication is very important. i agree with you that i think the previous posts in this forum have to do with miscommunication on several levels. though i too am just a learning human being and i know that i struggle with communicating difficult experiences in an objective way, i believe that it is important for all of us as living, breathing, interacting beings to work on cultivating a nonViolent language with each other.

for instance, i find myself, especially around the holidays, dealing with strained relationships with family members (as i'm sure a lot of people do). in the past, i have engaged in many fights over past wrongs or i have found that i'm trying to speak to a family member about how i feel i've been wronged by them, but instead of coming out in a positive manner, they get offended. these reactions were occuring because i was approaching the situation with my emotions on my sleeve and was, in the end, only concerned with getting my feelings out and getting my hurt respected and recognized.

tonight, on a personal level, surprised me. i had a family dinner in which "tricky" topics were discussed, but i found that if i considered everyone in the family's feelings in the situation before i spoke and focused on not hurting them, but instead being compassionate and talking with them, not at them, i ended up having a surprisingly wonderful night where i feel closer to my family. so this type of communication does work.

as for your sangha situations, i can see where the friend whose wife left him is a hard situation. and i'm not sure if i have the answer. i think he has a right to say that she discovered that she was being untrue to herself and the marriage, so she had to leave, but discussing her sexuality does seem a bit wrong/gossipy. but then again, if he needs to discuss this with his community to relieve his own suffering, than who i am to judge?

thank you for this post. i think it brings a lot for me to consider about my own speech and handling of situations.

namaste
[User Picture]
From:richmackin
Date:December 25th, 2005 05:47 am (UTC)
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It's funny that in situations where I drop my being "right" and focus on meeting my "opponents" needs, I actually wind up getting what I want more than when I fight for them- at least in discussion situations.

It's also funny that you're the first person to comment on this post, while the drama posts got almost 50 comments by now...what do you suppose this implies?
[User Picture]
From:melvillean
Date:December 25th, 2005 05:51 am (UTC)
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Heh. In my defense a lot of those posts were between another member of the community and myself when we discovered we went to the same school and are in disciplines that frequently cross-pollinate. ;)
[User Picture]
From:richmackin
Date:December 25th, 2005 06:02 am (UTC)
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Oh, I know that happens- I've had huge threads where someone I haven't seen for years comes across my LJ.

[User Picture]
From:afoundobject
Date:December 25th, 2005 06:03 am (UTC)
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gah... i'm trying not to get judgy here *as is my instinct, i am only human i guess*... but i think that sometimes the whole opposing views/fighting over LJ thing is one of those delicious traps. by that, i mean, well, we all have views and we all have passion- when someone seems to be attacking our views, the first instinct is to attack back.

situations like the two previous posts, in my viewpoint, are much more exciting to get into because, at times, it feels really good to stick up for your friends and solidify your viewpoints by arguing *i know it feels damn good to me sometimes, even if it's not the "right thing" to do and, in the end, only gets me in more trouble*.

hmmmm i dunno though, i think this is a great topic... maybe it needs more flare to draw the masses...

hmmm... what makes people pay attention...



llama?

[User Picture]
From:perruche_verte
Date:December 26th, 2005 08:45 am (UTC)
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Dolly Llama?
[User Picture]
From:rocza
Date:December 25th, 2005 11:25 am (UTC)
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That melvillean and I were procrastinating... ;)
[User Picture]
From:richmackin
Date:December 25th, 2005 07:09 pm (UTC)
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Oh yeah, I saw some serious use of LJ as completely unrelated dialogue when I actually looked at some of the sub-threads.
[User Picture]
From:rocza
Date:December 25th, 2005 05:52 am (UTC)
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The drug problem is something we're dealing with at school right now, so it's a sort of similar boat. How much do you say to protect others, how much do you carefully construe to protect the privacy of the person who is not being too forthcoming about their issue?

I ultimately made the decision to take the forthrightness of the person (with me) to my chair, because I felt like the well-being of the program was important, and people and the program at large could be hurt if I kept what I knew to myself. I'm not sure it was the right decision, though, and there's yet to be any direct action taken...I think at the moment, they're taking a wait and see approach.
From:blogmemnoch
Date:December 25th, 2005 05:58 am (UTC)
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we want names!
[User Picture]
From:richmackin
Date:December 25th, 2005 06:00 am (UTC)
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I said JoeyJoeJoe, what, do you think I made that up?
From:mindfulness
Date:December 25th, 2005 06:01 am (UTC)
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I like expressing an opinion on Joey in terms of care and concern rather than warning.

I often don't want to sound prying so err on the side of not asking questions and I think that sometimes that is taken as a lack of interest, whereas I'm damn curious. It shows how it's impossible to apply a strict rule, but rather it's best to act with compassion and loving-kindness as guides and motivating forces.
[User Picture]
From:turil
Date:December 25th, 2005 02:48 pm (UTC)

What will relieve suffering?

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That's my ultimate decision-making test. I think to myself, "What approach to a situation will have the most helpful, compassionate, and positive effect?"

I'm absolutely not perfect at this. Not even good, really. Not yet anyway. But when I have the time to really think about a problem, this is what I try to do.

When there is conflict, there is suffering, for all of those involved. I always try to remember that the reasons that individuals do "bad" things (cause suffering in themselves and others) is because they are confused. They are trying to get something they need (food, warmth, safety, love, education, etc.) but they are doing it in a way that is not effective or is harmful. So, in problem solving such a situation, I try to work backward to find the thing that the "purpetrator" was in need of. Then I try and figure out how to compassionately give the "purpetrator" what he or she needs. It doesn't always work, but it seems like the best way to go about it.

Also, I believe that it's important to involve everyone in the problem solving process, since this not only multiplies the mind-power available for problem solving, but also encourages everyone to become better problem solvers, and even allows everyone to feel intimately involved in the success of the process.
[User Picture]
From:richmackin
Date:December 25th, 2005 07:01 pm (UTC)

Re: What will relieve suffering?

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Well-said. One thing I have noticed, is that in situations where someone TRIES to respond in a positive way- even if the response isn't the best, it still prompts better reactions 9as a rule)

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